Public sentiment is overwhelmingly critical of Israeli actions, labeling them as genocide, and expressing frustration with the international community's response. There is strong anti-Netanyahu sentiment and calls for accountability, alongside criticism of leaders like South Africa's Ramaphosa for their perceived hypocrisy. Many comments highlight a profound moral urgency for intervention and support for Palestinian statehood amidst ongoing violence.

Israeli Government

Palestinian Leadership

South African Government

Fritja

attic-orator

H0rseDoggManiac

They don’t respond at all because israel is infallible and you’re an antisemite if you question anything they do

GothBoobLover

That it’s wrong? lol philosophy doctorate pls

[deleted]

Your question is very vague and it would be good to know what you think as well.

That said. One issue that comes up for ethicists and philosophers is the unique conditions/characteristics of a genocide, what sets it apart from war crimes, crimes against humanity, etc?

Lots of reporting talks about war crimes, which is a deflection, Israel cannot be at war with Hammas, just as America is not really at war with drugs or terrorism. 

Hammas, from their earliest founding documents strongly desire there be no Israel, is that alone enough to be considered genocidal, are genocidal intention and actual genocide different things, is genocide a desire? 

Israel, in pursuing legitimate Hammas targets, is creating many civilian fatalities, does this need to be intentional to constitute a genocide, can genocide happen as a by product of some other system or actions? 

I'd recommend the paper [Genocide and Social Death](http://www.mit.edu/~shaslang/mprg/CardGSD.pdf&amp;ved=2ahUKEwiIyay7wLqOAxXnWUEAHXZGFiUQFnoECBsQAQ&amp;usg=AOvVaw3Jx9JSCJ-2q4NQwghIqw_v) by Claudia Card as a good starting point.

Lorcav

From a utilitarian perspective we should encourage the release of the hostages and a complete surrender by Hamas. Anything else is going to lead to further death and destruction. This is true regardless of who you think is right in the conflict.

jazzgrackle

hardervalue

Saying Israel is committing genocide isn't just wrong-  it's a deeply offensive and dangerous distortion of reality.

Israel is in an active war against Hamas, a terrorist group that began this war on October 7 by murdering, torturing, raping, and kidnapping innocent civilians: including women, children, and babies. That’s not a “dispute,” that’s terrorism.

In response, Israel is targeting Hamas infrastructure. Hamas, on the other hand, deliberately places its weapons and fighters inside hospitals, schools, and residential areas, knowing civilians will be harmed and using that harm for propaganda. That is a war crime.

Genocide means the systematic extermination of a people. If Israel truly intended that, Gaza would have been flattened in hours. Instead, Israel warns civilians, creates evacuation corridors, and carries out targeted strikes- even when that puts Israeli soldiers in more danger - to minimize civilian harm.

You can criticize Israeli policy, but calling it genocide , or calling Jews “Nazis”- crosses a moral line. That’s not justice. That’s blind hate pretending to be ethics.

Medium_Prior4739

Nelsonian *knowledge* is the reason so many people refuse to see what Israel is doing is unethical.  Another reason is Cognitive dissonance because to admit even to ourselves that we have been tricked into being mentally complicit in supporting immoral acts is painful; it is easier to make up 'reasons' which justify such acts.

Most people want to believe they are not capable of supporting or doing evil so facing this can be uncomfortable.  This is why even when faced with overwhelming documented evidence including a database of more than 500 statements showing Israeli incitement to genocide, supporters of Israel will ignore it.

Mentalpilgrim

Does Hamas represent the wishes of the average Palestinian? 

Does the average Palestinian view Hamas as heroes? 

Who attacked first?

chelsea-from-calif

It's naive to believe that Israel is the sole reason this is happening - it's not. Hamas are radicals, but a lot of Palestinians have hated Israel since its existence, and before its existence they hated the ethnic groups that lived there. Israelis believe their existence is threatened constantly (which it kind of is by people from groups such as Hamas), and have a no-tolerence policy for those kind of groups. 

In essence, Hamas (and other similar groups) likes to brand itself currently as the rebels fighting against tyrants - but the origins of their movement are hate, not oppression.

Israel likes to brand itself as the regime fighting against terrorism - but imo they believe that they were oppressed for a long time, but now can have revenge. They're happily appropriating land and killing or starving anyone who gets in their way. 

It's obvious you're young, and you haven't done enough research in to this - you need to read about how long this conflict has really lasted. It's impossible to say exactly when Jews and Palestinians started fighting in this part of the world, it's been happening for arguably thousands of years. These people hate each other for reasons they don't even understand themselves. 

Neither side is in the right, but it is true that currently Israel is doing some disgusting things to the civilians living in Gaza, and they need to be stopped. 



also don't call people Nazi's  
you don't understand how vastly different (and worse) hitler's regime and genocide were to this situation



"Edit: wow it’s amazing how many pro genocide Nazis visit the ethics sub. Any one who supports Israel's genocide operation in Gaza is a Nazi."

maybe read something before you post shit like this maybe

scandyman144

You should feel lucky that you don't understand wars whatsoever. Your only argument was "but kids die" yes they do but by this logic the nazi should've won because it's too messy. That's war, war is famously tragic, i'm not sure what you expect

bluechockadmin

Ethically, it’s really harmful to Jewish people everywhere that Israel supporters are using the term antisemitism to describe criticism of genocide- this makes actual antisemitism seem fake by association/crying wolf. 

Idk your questions really vague,

Betray-Julia

Alwaystiredandcranky

Apophenos

They put hope on the international criminal court. For hope is all there is, lest you prefer despair.

redballooon

/u/PloppingSmock (OP) has awarded 2 delta(s) in this post.

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DeltaBot

Since nobody seemed to read the actual post where OP said This is NOT a discussion of the morality and bothered trying to change their view, I'll chime in.

I don’t think Gaza’s total destruction is the only likely outcome—just the most extreme one. A more natural and historically consistent outcome is that, over time, the Palestinian population adapts. Romantic arguments about “you can’t kill an idea” make for great slogans, but history shows people abandon causes when the costs become generationally unsustainable.

Eventually—maybe after a couple more cycles of war and displacement—the dominant will likely shift from resistance to survival. That could mean accepting a much smaller, weaker, and more fragmented version of a state—far worse than what was on the table in 1948, 1967, Oslo, 2005, or 2008. Not because it's fair, but because it’s what’s left.

Obsidian1000

I'm a lot more optimistic than yourself. Here are few things to consider -   
1) At least currently, the rate of death/removal of land isn't compatible with "wiping out Gaza". That is not to say that there aren't a lot of dead Palestinians and that is not to say that any life of a single Palestinian person aren't valuable - just that for more than a year now there are more Palestinians born in Gaza than Palestinians that died, and this is when you include Hamas militants in the calculation.  Same goes for Palestinians that left Gaza. At the start of the war a meaningful amount left, but after that not so many.  
This is not to diminish the suffering or anything, just to say that for your end to be the "likely" end, we would have to see a significant increase in those parameters.   
  
2) Majority of Israelis have showed in polls consistent support for the end of the war - and this majority grows as time progresses. (I know, some people in the comments would want to bring the one outlier poll with the poor methodology about the 82%, this is not how statistics work). This is already seen in Israel reducing the number of reservists they enlist, because many of them simply don't want to come for a war they want to end. This makes the increase from (1) significantly less likely - there is no internal support for such a move. That being said - the current Israeli gov (which according to polls loses by a large margin to its opposition) still has about a year+ left in office.

3) Lastly, IDK how close you follow the news, but there are some signs that Hamas loses its power completely. Some of these signs include the PA saying worse and worse things about Hamas (for the first time they said that October 7 was horrible), there are armed militias (that Israel helped arm - something that isn't consistent with occupying Gaza btw) that openly go against Hamas, and the Gazan protests against Hamas continue. The weaker Hamas are, the less commanders they have remaining, the better the offers that Israel is likely to get. Currently, any offer that was put on the table had Hamas remaining in some capacity in Gaza. Once this is gone - ideally it's easier to push Hamas to relinquish power and give back the hostages. If this happens - it's really hard to justify the continuation of the war - both to the Israeli public (that its opinions matter) and to the US. 

4) Lastly, notice that there are reports in recent days about Trump saying to Netanyahu he wants to see an end the war soon. Seems like Trump went back from his riviera plan.

comeon456

Why would that end the conflict?

The West Bank would still be a source of contention, and enough former-Gazian Palestinians live overseas to cause trouble at some future point.

The only end to the conflict is a diplomatic one, where both sides make concessions and find agreement over common grounds. Unfortunately, the leadership on both sides is probably going to have to change before this becomes a possibility—but it's still the only real resolution; anything else is just a pause while one side or the other regroups.

Wheloc

A one state solution is possible. Everyone can live together under a free, fair, democratic country. 

Israel supported and tolerated the religious groups that became Hamas. Their goal was to allow the religious extremist groups to gain power to squash the secular Palestinian Liberation movement. 

This just ended with the fight for Palestinians in gaza being tied to religious extremism. Which was great PR for Israel. 

However, it's not true. These are real people, both in Gaza and in Israel, who just want to live their lives. They could easily live in harmony. 

Jews, Muslims, and Christians lived together in the area for centuries. The modern conflicts began after the rise of Zionism, and specifically the Balfour declaration, where the British promised the Palestinians a nation if they revolted against ottomon rule, and they also promised the same area to Zionists for a Jewish state. Then European settlers started coming and in displacing natives from their homes and villages. That's when the fighting started. 

It's not impossible for them to coexist. 

This can be ended by a state where all people have equal rights, instead of the apartheid system that is currently set up. 

The issues that prevent that: 
The right of return. Palestinians aren't given the right of return to their ancestral homelands, but Jewish people who's families haven't lived their for millenia are given that right. 

Ethnonationalism: Israel is a Jewish state. That automatically puts a certain group in a higher social status than the others 

Mutual mistrust and trauma: the decades of fighting will leave lasting scars that need to be addressed to be able to allow healing. 

I don't see a reason why these issues would prevent them from being able to live together. They're certainly much better than genocide.

mddnaa

Since the prompt is to set morality aside, the simplest way to refute this is to mention that wiping out Israel would also end the conflict. Maybe some hypothetical where Iran or Russia infiltrates their nukes and sets them off in their silos?

A more realistic option though is to get peace partners on both sides. Maybe after all of this carnage, Palestinians oust Hamas (there are already protests going on now). Then, without Hamas as a boogie man, the Israeli far right loses their appeal/seats/power. Maybe whoever replaces Netanyahu and Hamas are both so sick of the carnage that they finally make a lasting peace.

Not sure how likely that is, but I think that could happen. It would require a lot of sacrifice from both sides though.

TJaySteno1

Generally speaking, Israel is willing to make peace.  They have long term peace treaties with Egypt and Jordan.  They just recently negotiated a ceasefire with Lebanon.  

For gaza, there is one non-negotiable requirement, and one likely requirement to peace.  Fulfilling both would probably avert the complete destruction you anticipate.  

Non-negotiable:

The hostages simply have to be returned.  Israel is not going to agree to any peace treaty that leaves hostages in the hands of Hamas to star in some future snuff video.  

That’s not even just a Netanyahu thing.  Even if he is removed from power, any government that takes its place would have to get the hostages returned before ending the war. 

Note that any “peace first, then the hostages get returned” is not going to work.  The war will continue until the hostages or their bodies are recovered.  There is simply no way for it to end before then. 



Likely requirement:

Hamas probably cannot remain as the government.  Unlike the hostages, I think there is some wiggle room on this one.  But, most likely, Israel would prefer war than allow Hamas, which has promised to launch a similar massacre in the future, to stick around.  

So, can the conflict end without the destruction of gaza?   For sure!   They will have to return the hostages and probably surrender unconditionally. Gaza may choose mass death over surrender, Japan almost did that in WW2, but it doesn’t have to happen that way.

Knave7575

That would be contrary to a now seventy year piles of evidence of how these things generally go.

A more logical and likely outcome is a partial depopulation of the area, with an exodus to nearby regions that encompasses a substantial part of the population, with the utter collapse of any organized Palestinian command, or its reorganization around the handful of people controlling what aide is given, or the ability to take it by force.

It is unlikely that Hamas in its pre-war form will be in that role, but entirely possible that different factions of it change the label or take over different parts of it.     Its also possible that a new violent extremist group emerges with a decisive edge in internal violence use, and uses its lack of track record to be considered a temporary benign influence to the Useful Idiot class of the West. 

This isn't ethnic cleansing, it isn't genocide,  it is a rinse and repeat political pogrom, that likely will be revisited over and over for the rest of our lifetimes, until the Palestinians forsake violence.

ErieHog

Is part of your belief that Hamas will never surrender and never accept a Jewish state alongside itself?

Ok_Owl_5403

I'm relieved that your post isn’t cheering for Gaza’s destruction - it’s wrestling with the fear that it might be the only end left. That sense of inevitability is what I want to gently challenge.

There’s a bitter irony here. The last time a superpower ended a major war with overwhelming force was America dropping atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. It was framed as a necessary horror to stop a greater one, and it did end the war.

Fast forward to Gaza: over the past 18 months, more explosive force than both atomic bombs combined - an estimated 60+ kilotons, has been dropped on one of the most crowded civilian areas in the world.

But it hasn’t ended Hamas. It hasn’t ended the conflict. The suffering has multiplied, and peace feels more distant.

If annihilation worked, we’d already have peace.

What actually ended WWII wasn’t just devastation - it was what followed. America didn’t just flatten Japan - they rebuilt it, invested in it, and created the conditions for peace.

That’s never been done for Gaza.

If we truly want an end, maybe the answer is world leaders finding their humanity and investing in justice, not perpetual wars and the kind of peace that is supposedly going to exist when Gaza becomes  apartheid apartments by the sea, built on the rubble of an unmarked graveyard for children.

throwawayfem77

Okay. While I think the ending you’ve suggested is possible, I also think it’s far from likely. Here are my reasons.

1.) Israel doesn’t want to become a pariah state. There are definitely some Israeli far-right politicians who don’t care what foreign states think of Israel, but that’s not yet the majority. And while Netanyahu has snubbed the President on occasion, it’s a thin line. 

Without American and European support, Israel would be dramatically weakened. They might be the strongest state in the region now, but a few decades down the line? Who knows. Level heads in the IDF of all places probably understand the threat international isolation poses better than Ben Gvir and his imbecilic posse.

2.) It’s too much money to continue the war indefinitely. Some kind of diplomatic agreement has to be reached, because total mobilization isn’t cheap.



The most likely solution, in my view, is another partial occupation/full occupation and a truce, not with Hamas but with some kind of puppet Palestinian authority. Kicking this can down the road has become an Israeli specialty at this point.

byzantiu

Hamas could surrender.

That always been an option. That prevent it.

Surrender has always been an option for Palestinian that they refuse to take. Take the L that they lost the war (and such lost major political capital) and decide to move on with their lives rather than try to take back what they lost.

If we take the premise that Hamas would rather all of Gaza burn then surrender to Israel, then yeah you're correct. Probably war will end with Gaza destruction.

But do you accept that premise that Palestrina people prefer death to surrender.

What does "wipe out" entail?
98% of Palestinians are still there after 2 years of war.


So infrastructure? Political system? Economy?

biteme4711

I will continue base on the assumption that you are only pointing out that Israel wants to complete the genocide and occupy the Gaza strip and other Palestinian lands, not endorsing or supporting their action.

* Politically speaking, Israel will most likely continue their effort because there is no opposing forces, thanks to the US' constant nays at the Security Council, if it was not Israel but another country with no lobbists paying US politicians, that country would have been bombed to oblivion two years ago.
* Militarily speaking, while Houthis are still launching missiles at Israel, but TBH it's only a nuisance at this point, and it will continue to be, base on the distance and all the arab countries that are not too keen on helping Palestine.
* Economically speaking, Israel has what it takes to keep going, of course I'm refering to the US tax dollars, while Palestine has next to nothing.
* Culturally speaking, Israel now shares the reputation of the Third-Reich and Militarist Imperial Japan, so they can't go lower, so nothing is holding them back in this regard.

It's likely Israel will continue down this path, but there is hope --

1. US will come to its senses when they realize Israel is becoming too strong in that region and starts to hurt their profit. (Not the first time, look at Al-Qaeda, Saddam Hussein, Taliban, Iran, Libyan rebels, Syrian rebels, the list goes on)
2. nternational pressure, shifting regional alliances, and global public opinion can create new dynamics that force Israel and its ally to stop.
3. Palestinian people’s resilience and the broader Arab and international solidarity movements continue to exert pressure, demanding justice and a sustainable resolution.

In short, while the current trajectory appears grim, complex geopolitical realities and historical precedents suggest that total annihilation is not the only possible end. Change—though difficult—remains within the realm of possibility.

CanadianGangsta

I unfortunately think your view is not... unlikely, but we have to keep in mind that past peace breakthroughs in the region also were unfathomable before they actually occurred. Nobody thought peace between Egypt and Israel would ever be possible before the brave, extended campaign on the part of Egyptian leadership to normalize relations.

It certainly isn't guaranteed, but a unified leadership on the palestinian side, willing to embrace peace and negotiate in good faith, and with the backing of the international community could force israel into a position where they *must* negotiate peace. I have my disagreements with Israeli leadership, but historically Israel has pretty astutely responded to the political realities on the ground, whether or not those aligned with their (often distasteful) political aspirations. 

if, by some miracle, a coherent palestinian leadership emerged that was dead-set on peace, it is not unlikely that Israel would have to negotiate a peace agreement with them - just like Jordan, Egypt, and now even Saudi Arabia

I think that with proper public pressure, the US and European governments will eventually have to do less and less for Israel, until Israel is forced to make peace.

Israel’s unpopularity and waning support will eventually make it collapse.

So the only way to stop a genocide is to let the people be completely destroyed and finish the genocide? Great insight sis 🤣

rkhatri

I'll take this one step further:
The only way to achieve true peace on earth is for the human species to be wiped out entirely.

TwilightFate

If America stops giving weapons to Israel the war will end

Invinciblez_Gunner

It depends what you mean by "the annihilation of Gaza". Large swathes of the strip have been reduced to rubble at this point, and Israel is certainly in favor of large scale emigration of Gazans from the strip. I don't think they'd have the political backing to carry out forced expulsions, but you can argue that the systematic destruction of infrastructure in the strip is a tacit endorsement of ethnic cleansing (and it's not hard to find hardcore voices in Israel who proudly call for that and worse).

If what you mean by "annihilation of Gaza" is that all 2 million residents will be killed, that's nowhere near a reality. The death toll in this conflict is far below the death toll in the Russia/Ukraine war, or many other conflicts in recent history, in raw numbers. The impact on civilians is egregious, and the fact that civilians haven't been able to flee is somewhat unprecedented. When all the dust settles, and the full death toll is tabulated, I don't know if it would reach double digits in terms of percentages (ie; &gt;10%). That's just a death toll - not a casualty toll, or a psychological trauma toll.

What would it take for Israel to end the war? Bibi wants to end the war with what is seen as a decisive victory. As it stands, Israel has largely dismantled Hamas's military capabilities and commanders. They've destroyed Hezbollah, and are eyeing possible normalization of ties with Syria.  Meanwhile, there's a huge focus in Israel in dismantling Iran's nuclear program, which requires freeing up additional military resources. There's also a strong pressure internally in Israel to wrap up the war in Gaza - the economic toll is huge, the diplomatic toll has been enormous, Israelis broadly prioritize returning the hostages, and there's increasing political pressure to bring the war to an end. For example, you mentioned Trump - while it's true that America won't stop providing arms to Israel, Trump also wants to be seen as a peacemaker, and has been exerting pressure on Israel recently to bring the war to a close and declare victory.

I think you can expect that the two sides will sign an agreement somewhat soon, under the proposed "Witkoff plan". That would lead to 10 living hostages freed over the course of 60 days, and the final living hostages' release to be negotiated pending a full end to the war. Israel might make a big push to get Gazans to leave for other countries, but even if 1 million people leave (which is unlikely - nobody wants to accept Gazan refugees, especially on mass), there will still be 1 million people living in the strip.

Over the coming decade, there will be an enormous amount of money poured into reconstruction efforts. There are billions of people around the world who want to donate money to that cause, and every country in the middle east would benefit from a stable and prosperous Gaza. Obviously, that's not possible with Hamas in control, but the current deals on the table would theoretically see Hamas cede control. The political future of the conflict is uncertain, but the continued existence of Gaza is not. 

Happy to provide citations for anything you have questions about here.

MostlyAffable

So you have accepted now that a two state solution is not sustainable, and it never was, not when once side refuses to live peacefully in coexistence. I’m glad. 

You later stated ‘a one state solution with equal rights seems great but does not seem likely in the near future’ I’m not sure if this is just genuine lack of knowledge or naiveness but I’ll go with the first. There is a one state, that has offered a tremendous number of solutions, that offers equal rights for all citizens irregardless of race, religion, political views, sex or sexual orientation - This is called the state of Israel. Where 2 million Arabs live peacefully in coexistence, more so they are in the Knesset, they are all doctors or bankers or high court judges.

StartMiddle

Human brains seek simple, easily understood solutions to complex problems. Real life is hardly ever so simple. 

Israel has already pretty much destroyed most of Gaza so you're correct there. But I think the idea that Gazans will be relocated or killed is not realistic. On relocation - there is nowhere for them to go. Egypt will not have them in Sinai. Its not practical in any way. And on extermination... also not really realistic.

Despite the brutality of this war only a small fraction of Gazans are dead. There is a very very large gap I between war with heavy civilian casualties and systemic extermination. Gazans are still having babies. The current pace of the war, devastating as it is, can continue for a very very long time without resulting in extermination. 

The fact is that there is really no gain for Israel in extermination. That would only radicalize Palestinians in Israel and the West Bank and move the conflict elsewhere. Israel knows that there is no realistic solution in which they do not still have to deal with a substantial Palestinian population in territories they control. 

Extermination doesn't suit their interests. Domination does. There will be a harsh occupation and strict apartheid-style laws for the foreseeable future. They believe they cannot live peacefully with Palestinians and cannot exterminate then either, so they aim to control them as closely as possible.

Prince_Marf

With all due respect, your comments reflect deep ignorance about the social structure of the Palestinian territories. Further, your comments suggest a significant disconnect between your media diet and current events in Gaza. 

In the Palestinian territories, a small number of clans (essentially extended families, but the concept not completely analogous) hold tremendous social and political power. In the past few weeks, three different clans in Gaza have denounced Hamas and begun working with Israel in opposition to Hamas. This is a significant turning point in the war.

If the clans are able (with the help if Israel) overthrow Hamas, they will replace Hamas as the governing body of Gaza.

Was that the solution for slavery of black people in America or South Africa?

Seems like equal rights tend to be the most likely if we go by history.

Unless you think jews are some special kind of evil

Giardian_of_Israel

If it's okay to be this existential then lets get rid of Israel by stopping all its funding. The West has thrown so much money into making this barbaric and unnatural project work but all it would take to make it fall is let go and let gravity do its work. 

DustyFalmouth

Total genocide of Gaza won't end the war. Once Gaza is empty the West Bank will be next. They're already running operations there and the leadership of the West Bank *has* recognized Israels right to exist.

After they empty the West Bank they move on the Jordan and Sinai. Remember, the Israeli right believes Israel should stretch from the Nile to the Euphrates.

So sure, you can take the morality questions out of it. But your question in inherently flawed because whether you empty out Gaza or not it still won't end the conflict.

Acceptable-Fig2884

Not to be a doomer but it’s entirely possible with the recent evacuation of US military families and Israeli/American intel talking about a strike on Iran, that this could escalate into a regional if not global conflict. If Iran decides to bomb US military bases or Saudi oil fields and tank the oil market it would almost certainly mean US intervention. Considering Iran is allied with China/Russia it’s very possible they would supply weapons and even military support to protect their interests with Iran

Confident-Football-2

I am looking at it in the following way:

  
1. Israel can't murder 2M people in Gaza, it would make them pariahs for the rest of their existence, which wouldn't be long when arabs finally attack it and Western countries turn a blind eye.

2. Israel can't occupy Gaza forever, it's just too expensive for a 10M nation to occupy 2M Gazans.

3. Israel can either withdraw - and return to pre-October 7 status, which doesn't make a lot of sense to do.

4. Or push all Palestinians from Gaza - the best scenario for Israel. But if Palestinians won't leave, then we come back to point #1 (Israel can't kill all of them), then point #2, and finally to point #3 (Israel must withdraw because it can't afford)

So, if Palestinians don't move away and suffer for some time, Israel will withdraw.

ScrupulousArmadillo

Hamas could always just release the hostages and surrender.

Frankly, the most likely scenario is as follows:

1. UN and international diplomatic pressure force Israel to agree to the Hamas terms: Israel to pull out and Hamas pinky-promises to release the hostages afterward.
2. Israel pulls out.  Hamas releases some but not all of the hostages.  Hamas comes up with some lame excuse like "the hostages converted to Islam" or "we can't find them."
3. Israel complains about its hostages and Hamas' failure to abide by the deal.  Nobody listens or cares.

3a. Hamas shoots off a few dozen rockets into Israel in celebration and to show it is not under control and as a symbol the fight goes on.  Israel is pressured not to retaliate.  It might, it might not, either way is purely symbolic.

4.  International aid pours in to rebuild Gaza.  Iran, Qatar, the Muslim Brotherhood, and other groups continue to send military supplies to Hamas.

5.  5-7 years from now, Hamas breaks the ceasefire and attempts "Al Aqsa Flood 2." Once again, Muslims and Leftists around the world gather to celebrate the beginning of war and the gruesome murders.

6.  Israel invades Gaza again, reminding the world that its hostages have been in captivity for over a decade, now.  Once again, Gazan civilians refuse to evacuate and the "Pro-Palestine" countries refuse to accept any refugees anyway.

7. No matter how Israel responds or to what extent, the UN and international left will restart the histrionics and label its actions "genocidal."  Pressure mounts on Israel to accept another "ceasefire" which will almost certainly be broken within a few years.

8.  Rinse, Repeat, Ad Infinitum.

XhazakXhazak

I think Israel will take all of Gaza and people will be shipped elsewhere eventually. 

But the US will not support Israel for much longer (less than 20 years?) as more and more young people are trained in thinking that all physical conflict is unjustifiable. 

The young and even most millennials today don’t believe in peace through strength

Moonwrath8

Wiped out? Logistically and optically too expensive.  Rather - likely reduced to about 20% of the land in tightly controlled enclaves with a barely functional economy that causes a majority of the population to eventually leave.  And that 20% will be heavily monitored and checkpointed, like West Bank. The 80% of land left over will be military reserve for Israel with anti-tunnel measures, and land given to settlers.  

No-Dinner-5894

There is always the possibility of a collapse of the Israeli government; if the ruling coalition somehow breaks apart, there's a chance that their replacement will seek to end the war in the interest of making a clean break. Particularly, the ultra-orthodox parties have been increasingly vocal members of the coalition, with their protests against the possibility of ultra-orthodox men being drafted into the IDF. 

But that would only really be a stopgap measure. The current state of affairs, even if the fighting stopped tomorrow, is unsustainable. Barring an actual miracle or the complete collapse of Israel as a state, Israel will eventually absorb Gaza and the West Bank; the only real question is whether there will be anyone left when they do.

Doc_Mercury

The likely end to the conflict is that Israel trades Gaza for Iran. Israel bombs Iranian nuclear reactors, but ends the war in Gaza. 

Israel will accept this because they view Iran as the bigger threat and ultimate funder of Hamas. They'll get to Hamas eventually. 

Hamas will accept it, because they need the war to end so they can stabilize their control on Gaza and regroup. 

America will accept it, because it ends the Gaza war while removing the threat of a nuclear Iran. 

(The Iranian people will accept it if it means the overthrow of the Mullahs, well see if that happens.)

The only real losers are Palestinians, who are still under Hamas dictatorship.

Technical-King-1412

Maybe the destruction of Israel would be more likely

ArcangelLuis121319

Gaza will be occupied, and large parts of it will be destroyed but not necessarily wiped out. If Genocide was the intent, the civilian death toll is too low, considering how destructive modern weapons are. The most likely answer is that Gaza will be occupied indefinitely while Israel or another Arab country administers the region and rebuilds civilian infrastructure and economy.

Under current conditions, a two-state solution is impossible. It will only ever become possible when extremist ideology is wiped out.

1ncest_is_wincest

Jews were once expelled from the same location, and this has not ended the conflict in the region. Diaspora groups always carry the memories and stories of their land of origin and will feel a pull towards it. They will export their conflicts and act them out in immigrant neighbourhoods. As for the Israelis, the oppressed have become the oppressor. History repeats itself. The Middle East will be forever cursed with this conflict. 

The only solution is mass conversion to Van Halen.

Popular_Ad_4934

I agree with everything except one thing. They will not massacre the palestinians to a man. Right now 1% of the civilian population has been killed. We are a long way off from killing off the palestinians in Gaza. If Egypt doesnt open its border i dont see them going anywhere else. In that case they will probably be hoarder into southern Gaza and kept there. They said before that Gaza is an open air prison, but i think we havent seen anything yet....

FitDeal325

I agree. I don’t see this ending any other way, especially given the people in power.

I will take it a step further and say my tin foil hat take. I think Israel knew about the Oct. 7 Hamas attack and chose to ignore it. They knew it was a prime opportunity to take over Gaza once and for all. The military over there is far too advanced for them to of not known about Hamas falling out of the sky.

Zestypalmtree

I think it's fairly obvious that this war will be over once Hamas has been removed from power. If Hamas continues to refuse to return the hostages and surrender unconditionally, then the destruction will continue.  But I don't see anything that justifies the contention that Gaza will be wiped out "entirely."

Other peoples have weathered wars. The Palestinians will, too.

flossdaily

Actually the only way for the conflict to end is to

A) arrest Netanyahu and his administration for war crimes
B) remove every settler and put them on trial for war crimes.
C) implement 2 state solution


What you're describing is literally just genocide.

BatmanxX420X

The Prodestant vs Catholic conflicts in Ireland. Violence happened between the two groups for hundreds of years and the last conflict lasted 30 years. Some people back then had the opinion that the conflicts would never end but peace has lasted there today. You can never know what will happen in the future. It may not happen right now, but things do change.

Godlesspants

Well , there is the possibility that this continued agression , oppression and the ridiculous amount of wartime atrocity , combined with the dwindeling and deteriorating economic and social conditions would trigger widespread revolutions in arab countries (basically a second arab spring) , that would change US priorities in the region and force them to diminish their involevement in Gaza to direct their resources to handeling these revolutions...The hardest places this could happen in though is the golf state because of the lack of economic hardship that would force people to revolt even though there is social unrest over the Gaza situation because the palastinian cause is still very much alive and important is the islamo-arabic world conciousness. Ironically , revolutions in the golf states would be the most likely to affect this war because of the Us economy's heavy reliance on the petro-dollar which is based on golf state oil reserves , a blow there would be a very hard one on the US which would affect the war if it happens (which i admit while not impossible , it's flirting with dreaming territory...).

If some of the above happens , things could even break into a major regional conflict , maybe even a global conflict , since there is so many US enemies that are waiting for a proper distraction to take action , like china with taiwan , or russia with ukraine and eu , and even iran in the region.

The biggest source of hope is that history prove that nothing is implacable , So many powers seemed to be unbreakable until sufficiant small events and changes created a domino effect that completely destroyed said power , and while that hope might never materialise into reality and instead into the worst outcome , no one can tell the future for sure.

As an arab , i'm personally placing my bet on widespread revolution throughout the arab region to change not only the tide of the war but the future of our region...

Now that i think about it , Israel doesn't intend to stop at Gaza and is constantly stating it's goal of creating greater israel which requires invading all neighbouring states which not only would trigger revolution against the powerless and compliant client governements of our countries but also unite the middle east against israel , so maybe their very same aggression would lead to their demise , like every fashist government or empire , eventually it will have too many enemies to be able win...

Exact_Tune2968

I, unfortunately, agree with your prediction. I think Israel will not stop, and while sympathetic western nations might highly encourage a two state solution and peace, they won't bring any real force of consequence to bear to make it happen, and the Palestinian people will be slowly pushed further and further out until they are effectively completely exiled from their own homeland.

That is a big part of why, and every time I say this I get a shit load of people clutching their pearls and being dead set on deliberately misunderstanding me, but that is why I understand and sympathize with Hamas.

Like I always have to do when I say that, I must make it clear that I completely reject and have the utmost disdain for the practices of fundamentalist Islam from basically every social and human rights angle. I also have the utmost disdain for terroristic violence.

However, I know that I hold those disdains from a position of extreme privilege. That is to say, my people aren't facing extinction and banishment. My people aren't having their homes and land stolen.

If my people were facing that, and had been for now multiple generations, then that alternate reality version of myself might very well be an extremist. That alternate reality version of myself might very well have clung to apocalyptic religion and martyr fetish radicalized sects. That alternate reality version of myself might well have come to harbor a bristling hatred of the entire rest of the world.

I don't want that to be the case, but it's true. I will admit openly that if I rushed home, seeing a pillar of smoke coming from where my house used to be, and dug through the rubble of my home to find my daughter or wife or son or parents blasted into meat and effluence that I could barely tell used to be them, or even worse yet found them still alive with their skin sloughing off and what's left of their jaw flopping open as they try to call for help.....if that happened to me, It would radicalize me. I'm telling you, boom, snap, that's it. I would be an extremist from that day forward. Nothing else in life would matter. I would cease being me on that day, and what's left of me would be nothing but hate and desire for revenge then my own death.

And I think the same would be true for most of us.

Jimithyashford

Because countries don't want to take refugees from Gaza and birth rates are high (population doubled itself in the last 2 decades). You will end up with milion of people living in tents for the rest of their life, gaza in ruins and it doesn't look like someone going to build that city soon

Special-Resource-375

Is there no way to collapse Hamas without eliminating all of Gaza? Regimes have been deposed before historically without eliminating everyone under the rule of that regime.

Israel could negotiate with the Palestinian Authority such that the Palestinian Authority would agree to take over Gaza and return the hostages while maintaining Gaza as separate from Israel proper. From there Israel could structure their offensive into Gaza strategically around building the Palestinian Authority against Hamas (create safety zones for civilians ran by the PA, build PA infrastructure, etc.).

As far as I’m aware Israel hasn’t tried anything along this route. It seems less a matter of likelihood but more that Israel doesn’t want to make the concessions in the West Bank that such negotiations will necessitate and doesn’t want to invest the time and resources into building a new regime in Gaza.

Typically deposing a regime means propping up another to take its place and not eliminating the people under that regime entirely. I don’t see why that can’t be done in Gaza outside of Israel not wanting to.

RealJohnBobJoe

A corner stone of this conflict is Israel's power to act with impunity due to unconditional support from the US administration. Therefore Israel is not motivated to really seek peace.

So an alternative and realistic option is the U.S. withdrawing all support for Israel. Now, this might seem unrealistic—but I think, over time, it’s actually quite realistic. Here's why:

Firstly, why do many US politicians support Israel? Well, the answer is—they actually don’t. They support their own careers by staying on the good side of AIPAC. The American public, in general, is not nearly as pro-Israel as the government traditionally is. An enormous amount of support for Israel comes from AIPAC and Christian Zionists (not the US public in general)

So Israel, although powerful, rests on a precarious foundation. With some strategic political action, Israel’s hijacking of the U.S. government could be reversed. Focus on the undue influence of AIPAC and expose the irrational foundation of Christian Zionism—whose support for Israel is not based on justice or anything that makes sense. It is based on the apocalyptic belief that God is at war with the forces of darkness, and Israel is His chosen one in this war. So hy should the American public support this nonsense financially and send their soldiers to die for this cause?

Once U.S. support (or servitude) is withdrawn from Israel, this will force Israel to actually negotiate with surrounding nations. It will no longer have the power to target their children. It will no longer have the power to steal more land in the West Bank. It will no longer have the power to behave with impunity. It will be forced to compromise and will no longer be able to provoke without consequence. Basically, Israel will be forced to accept terms that actually consider the other side.

After decades of heavy funding from the U.S. government, Israel will still retain a lot of power—but it will now need to use it wisely and will be forced to seek peace in a genuine way.

*And to help the OP get their idea across: they are not saying anyone SHOULD wipe out Gaza - even if it was the only way to end the conflict.*

LostSignal1914

I agree that this is the most likely, UNLESS the international community steps up. Unfortunately it seems like they wont.

SorryImDunk

No, there is a better way.

The war on Hamas is one against the Hamas government and military.  The non-combatants (civilians) are not the issue.  Gaza just needs government that works to lead the people to a future that is not focused on the destruction of Israel, rather focused on building a sustainable economy and country for the Gaza people.

The war will remove all traces of Hamas, this is step 1.

An Israeli security force will keep peace after the war and maintain security, step 2.

Israel has no interest in leading the people of Gaza, they are all done with them.  Israel would be best served by brining in a multinational group from the countries in the Abram’s Achord to lead as the government of Gaza and de-radicalize the remaining people, rebuild the country, and focus on building an economy so the people can have a better life.

Things got off track because Hamas got into power and committed to war.  New leadership can commit to peace and globalization to bring in economic support from around the world to build an entirely new path for Gaza.

This is what happened in Germany and Japan after WW2, and both countries are amazing now.  It can happen in the Middle East as well.  Particularly if the Iranian government is defeated and is replaced by a government that will stop pumping aid into terror groups around Israel. This process has stated already as well.

Please be hopeful, other areas in the world have been consumed by hate in the past and were able to move forward to become better places.  It can happen in Gaza as too.

Co-flyer

I see this dragging on for a very, very long time. Israel remains resolute in executing a slow-motion genocide, and it’s doing so with unconditional U.S. backing. No significant policy shift seems likely in the foreseeable future, even under a non-Trump administration.

While resistance movements often collapse into resignation or adaptation, I don’t see that happening in Gaza. This monstrosity - it’s a genocide - plays directly into jihadist narratives.

On one side, many Palestinians are raised with an all-or-nothing view: “It’s our land, all of it”. The doctrine of Islam also is not especially yielding or forgiving; although this conflict can’t be framed as purely religious, it does make compromise less likely. On the other side, Israelis are taught that their “biblical birthright”, collective trauma, and existential fear justify exclusive claim to the same land.

Even if we imagine a future in which a new generation of Palestinians genuinely tries to integrate (a hopeful but unlikely scenario), the Israeli vision remains fundamentally ethnocratic. The goal is not peaceful coexistence, but the realization of Greater Israel, with Jews as the primary citizens and Palestinians as permanent outsiders.

You can’t expect recovery or de-radicalization under conditions of daily humiliation: your house taken, your rights denied, your people dehumanized. It really look like Israel and Palestine are locked in a never ending conflict fuelled by their respective collective trauma and fragmented identity.

lovely-complex

Late comment, but you are correct to be concerned. What people don't understand is that Israel technically did not displace anyone. They were afforded their state (a very small country) in 1947 by the UN to provide refuge of Jews from the still anti-semitic post-WW2 Europe. The Palestinians have been kicked out at least 4 times, dating back over 100 years. Egypt and Jordan gave Israel more land, including the Gaza Strip and Western Bank, under the auspices of the UN. And England (what was England doing there?)

The Palestinians need their homeland returned, safe and sound. But Israel is not the only bad guy here, they actually were given their land. And the Israelis and Palestinians got along great for a couple decades before Netanyahu and Hamas took over. I know because we took care of Palestinian people in our Israeli hospitals.

The October slaughter of innocent Israelis told me that Hamas is not to be trusted, they knew of the consequences that they're now complaining about. I say, feed the Palestinians, and get rid of Hamas!! They care nothing about their own people (obviously), they are terrorists that hide behind the innocents. And Netanyahu can take a quick exit, too. 

But notice how Germany (the country whose history started this whole mess), Egypt, and Jordan are hiding their heads, as well as the other countries involved in the UN, expecting the US to solve everything they caused. Cowards!

maxmurray1957

I can’t convince you otherwise. The Jewish government’s goal is to annihilate the Arab people living in the area. The ones who don’t die through bombardment are starved and left without medical supplies. They will bomb everything until conditions become unlivable. No one can live in rubble alone. Some rubble can be cleaned up but if it gets too much, there are no supplies coming in to rebuild and enough people are killed or injured, the remaining will die consequently without any Jewish intervention necessary. Yes, of course the US will send them more money and weapons they can ever use “to defend themselves” Why do you think Israel has other goals? 

Imagine someone would come to the US would take your house and lawn and would put you, your kids, your parents and neighbors in an internment camp. Would you be upset and think that this was unfair? That is what Jewish settlements are. Jewish SETTLEMENTS violate the Geneva convention. This means they violate human rights. I am surprised that everyone expects the people who live there give up their livelihood, all their possessions, their kids’ future, and their work and move to a camp in a tent without a fight. It would just be appropriate to call it what it is, a genocide. The annihilation of a people with the help of the US. If the US wouldn’t support it, it would not be possible.

Vegetable_Profile315

Statement submission:

For the past week or so, we have seen significant international pressure on Israel. The joint statement led by the UK has some 30 signatories, nearly all of them Israeli allies. France is about to recognise Palestine and there are calls in the UK to do the same. Even Germany has put out a joint statement with UK and France about how horrific the situation has become. Israel is now conceding that there is a famine occurring (although denies responsibility) and is going to permit more aid in to alleviate the suffering of the Palestinian people.

denyer-no1-fan

È una Grande Riflessione. 


Chi la pone chi la pensa si schiera dalla parte dell' Uomo e dell' Umanità.


Colui che reagisce piccato, è dal lato della Sopraffazione. 


Chi non reagisce (esempio statunitensi maga e governo Trump e/o governi europei) è dalla parte di Ponzio Pilato.

OkSupermarket263

If Ukraine received even half the attention Palestine received, then they'd have already won the war lmao.

Palestine is the MOST loud war of all time, excluding World Wars..

HyperBunga

Palestinians have a history of being some of the worst terrorists of all not just against Israelis but other countries as well. hijackings attacks bus bombing kidnappings take your pic. Many of us remember that and realize it is generational. They are some of the worst people of all many wonder why Israel hasn't just finished the job.

Ukrainians have fought hard to get away from Mother Russia. And when Russia invaded Crimea people like Obama just turn their heads and let it happen and now we have this situation.

I look at all the things israel has done for Palestine when nobody else does anything. There was a corridor between Egypt and Palestine and yet no one built power lines thru there. no one trucked in as much medicine as Israel does or as much food as Israel does or the water that Israel does. 

According to history this was the Jewish holy land long before they're even really was the word Palestinian many believe that came from Crete in the Aegean and were a war like people and still are

How many times have you seen Israelis Target innocent individuals like that wedding party in DC or Massachusetts where they were having a peaceful demonstration and an Israeli attack the people. Or how about the unrest on campus across the United States people being kept from classes all because on October 7th they raped and burned women children and killed others. How many times have you seen in the news including Al Jazeera where Israelis just arbitrarily in masks went over and did that type of thing to hundreds of Palestinians women and children. Tired of their sneak attacks and bombings and terrorist attacks maybe Israel will now finish this job

perfect-enemy-ofgood

I see it the other way around, many people crying over Palestine, but nobody about Ukraine

randomuser336699

'veto power to shield the aggressor?'
What nation veto to shield Hamas?


And to you question, the white west care more about whites,
And the rest I suspect don't really care.


And also maybe there is less empathy toward aggressors.

Few-Remove-9877

Strange question. Seems calculated to start an argument. Not sure why.

Subject_Candidate992

You can't be serious.  I can't walk down the street without hearing random students crying "Free Palestine".  I can't remember the last time anyone shoulded "Slava Ukraini" on the streets of my city.

devildogs-advocate

One of the reasons is that after Ukraine is free, it won’t be governed by the likes of Hamas or Taliban

Ukraine is well sympathized with for resisting an assault by a greedy authoritarian state.

Opponents of palestiniasm aren't whispering about the conflicts in Gaza and Syria - we're actually quite vocal in our support of a culture that's willing to endure the scorn of hypocrites in order to defend itself. 

Gaza and Syria are failed states. They abuse women, demand obedience, and insist their righteousness must be catered too, all the while rejecting tolerance while demanding it for themselves.

Humanity would be better off without them.

zakaria798

I never saw Israel/Palestine Facebook or Instagram posts  saying: “what about Ukraine?”

Israel Palestine has generated way more buzz than Ukraine ever did.

DougosaurusRex

Kunyka27

STOP FUCKING WISH OUR PEOPLE DEATH, WE DID NOT DESERVE THAT.
GO TARGET AN ANOTHER COUNTRY, NOT UKRAINE!!!!!

STOO FUCKING HATE UKRAINE OVER PALESTINE!!!!!!
WE DID NOT ATTACK PALEATINE, WTF YOU TARGET UKRAINE WHILE WE ARE VULNERABLE!?
STOP FUCKING SIDE WITH RUSSIA, ANIMAL.

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 *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev/home)*

GrothendieckPriest

because unlike ukraine, "gaza" started this war, and unlike ukraine, "gaza" were the one who invaded a country murdering and raping everyone they see.

you want people to compare israel to russia, well bad luck as the comparison is russia to hamas, both deranged lunatics with hamas topping putin in everything bad you can think of, i rather be an ukranian under russian rule than a jewish one under 'gazan' rule.

and seeing your comments here makes it crystal clear that you dont really care, you are just here to 'defend' terrorism and promote anti israeli content.

IllustratorSlow5284

Because Israel is a western ally and an extension of US power. Criticising Israel risks upsetting the US aka daddy.

Reasonable-Pay-477

Russia is the aggressor while Israel isn’t. Most Ukrainian people, btw, strongly support Israel. They tend to identify with the Israelis. 

The world is divided over Ukraine, actually. Most countries continue business as usual with Russia, especially the axis of evil countries like China. It’s just western countries who have been protesting over Ukraine. 

So the comparison is pretty flawed in the first place.

BizzareRep

From my experience it's the exact opposite. I think it's just a matter of the algorithm. The reason I would think people would care more about Ukraine is that Russia is widely considered the "bad guys" in the other circumstances they view them as an unfortunate collateral damage. Obviously all civilian deaths are tragic but it's the "context" of them being killed is what people "cry" about.

Master_Scion

I don’t recall seeing Russians or Ukrainians with dead 20 year old girls stripped to their underwear being paraded around in the back of a pick up truck through a block party of people cheering and taking selfies

I do recall seeing that from Gaza though
Sorry comparing the two is like apples and bowling balls

Conscious-Sock2777

The United Nations Security Council held discussions highlighting the growing international divide over the Gaza conflict, with most nations calling for an immediate ceasefire and increased humanitarian aid.

Gaza Conflict and International Response

Why This Matters

Public Sentiment Summary

Highlighted Comments

Parties Involved

What the people want